Are Saiyans Inherently Evil?

Beerus

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I always thought it was strange. Like anytime you think of a Saiyan outside of Goku, they all seem to be rooted in a sort of "evil". I used to believe this was down to how they were raised. They were raised to be fighters and do grunt work, to take over planets. Goku at a young age showed that he was very disgruntled and almost wild - up until he hit his head. Gohan, Trunks, and Goten don't have any of this in them even though they are 50% Saiyan. Vegeta had a lot of growth but has proved to be a carrying father and husband in the long run. Could it be based on intelligence? The more intelligent a Saiyan, the more likely they can change?

I don't know if they, as a species, are just bred to be evil (according to our views of what is evil) or if they were somehow trained to be this way. It seems like it can be one, the other, or even both.

Do you think Saiyans are inherently evil - that they are just born that way?
 

Yoshi

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I always thought the explanation for Goku was poorly handled. Like he could have been born different in personality from the rest and it would have been more tolerable.

To answer the thread, yes I do. Half Saiyans are also clearly different from pure Saiyans, considering they also dislike fighting and training unless they find it necessary.
 
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Giga Hertz

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Theologically/philosophically, all of us are inherently evil. You ever leave a kid to their own devices? They have to be taught to be good people, to share, to care for others (and that BS that children learn racism from their parents is BS).

So to come back to the actual question: Saiyans have to be taught to be good. Goku was modelled good traits from Grampa Gohan who almost certainly was role-modelled by his father (and Roshi) who would have been role-modelled by his parents... You look at the Bible (and extra cultures that we know about outside of that) and you have all these cultures that are doing child sacrifice, ritual beatings and killings, stealing. What Israel was prescribed from God is literally what our moral laws are built on, and those are wholly unique to nations founded on those - other countries only have a handful of them, not all of them.

Saiyan nature definitely doesn't help their cause, but at the end of the day they're broken by the same inherent flaws as we are. It's just their own cultural sin tends to be centred more on the wrath and pride.

 
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Beerus

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Theologically/philosophically, all of us are inherently evil. You ever leave a kid to their own devices? They have to be taught to be good people, to share, to care for others (and that BS that children learn racism from their parents is BS).

So to come back to the actual question: Saiyans have to be taught to be good. Goku was modelled good traits from Grampa Gohan who almost certainly was role-modelled by his father (and Roshi) who would have been role-modelled by his parents... You look at the Bible (and extra cultures that we know about outside of that) and you have all these cultures that are doing child sacrifice, ritual beatings and killings, stealing. What Israel was prescribed from God is literally what our moral laws are built on, and those are wholly unique to nations founded on those - other countries only have a handful of them, not all of them.

Saiyan nature definitely doesn't help their cause, but at the end of the day they're broken by the same inherent flaws as we are. It's just their own cultural sin tends to be centred more on the wrath and pride.

Look at you dropping PragerU videos in here, you bigot! :haha:

I get what you are saying and it makes sense but in terms of Saiyans, they aren't "human" in the series.
 
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Giga Hertz

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Yeah, but evil has to come from somewhere. I think all literature and media toys with the idea that we're all capable of that evil, just some sink lower than others. In Dragon Ball you have a race of warriors who have absolutely no real "good" influence, and any contact they make is either hostile or "more evil" than they are.

Almost like they're in need of someone to save them from themselves. ;)
 
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Beerus

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Yeah, but evil has to come from somewhere. I think all literature and media toys with the idea that we're all capable of that evil, just some sink lower than others. In Dragon Ball you have a race of warriors who have absolutely no real "good" influence, and any contact they make is either hostile or "more evil" than they are.

Almost like they're in need of someone to save them from themselves. ;)
There is always light and darkness in everything, this is true. They did paint certain aspects in a way that would deem them as having "good" in them. You see this mostly with Bardock. (Excluding Goku and Vegeta)
 

Giga Hertz

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Oh yeah, there's always non-mould-fitters who can break the cycle. But I think from an empirical point of view, there's more basic evil in Saiyans (and people in general) than good.

I would stab from a spiritual perspective that the reason Kami and Piccolo split wasn't because of an inordinate amount of evil, but because there isn't any human who is good enough to be a god (and certainly not capital-G God).
 
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Yoshi

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Theologically/philosophically, all of us are inherently evil. You ever leave a kid to their own devices? They have to be taught to be good people, to share, to care for others (and that BS that children learn racism from their parents is BS).

So to come back to the actual question: Saiyans have to be taught to be good. Goku was modelled good traits from Grampa Gohan who almost certainly was role-modelled by his father (and Roshi) who would have been role-modelled by his parents... You look at the Bible (and extra cultures that we know about outside of that) and you have all these cultures that are doing child sacrifice, ritual beatings and killings, stealing. What Israel was prescribed from God is literally what our moral laws are built on, and those are wholly unique to nations founded on those - other countries only have a handful of them, not all of them.

Saiyan nature definitely doesn't help their cause, but at the end of the day they're broken by the same inherent flaws as we are. It's just their own cultural sin tends to be centred more on the wrath and pride.

Not all humans are inherently evil, we just are not perfect, and that's what makes us human. However, there are those of us without any empathy, and those are the individuals that are actually evil.
 

Giga Hertz

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Not all humans are inherently evil, we just are not perfect, and that's what makes us human. However, there are those of us without any empathy, and those are the individuals that are actually evil.
The problem is the definition of evil. From a Christian perspective, it ranges anywhere from selfish motives to Hitler. There are definitely things that are more evil, and definitely many levels and stages, but evil begins with the inherent imperfections that make us human.
 
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India Actual

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I absolutely believe that all species are born inherently innocent the Saiyans included. Their fighting ways was a learned behavior and they evolved in such a way which made them better suited at that lifestyle. Anyone can be good, evil, a mixture of both just like all men and women.
 

Yoshi

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I think that people with Antisocial Personality Disorder can become Sociopaths, but others are born Psychopaths.
 

India Actual

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I think that people with Antisocial Personality Disorder can become Sociopaths, but others are born Psychopaths.
Even someone who has a mental disorder which can display sociopathic behavior can be inherently good. The bad behavior on display is learned. If a sociopathic individual were to be isolated from birth and never learned bad behavior which they would use to act out. Then in effect they wouldn't be a psychopath because we label these people as such due to how they act outside of social norms. The person wouldn't know such things and would essentially be almost like a child acting out of frustration.
 

Giga Hertz

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See, I don't believe that bad behaviour is learned. You ever see a child who has never been told "no"?
 

Beerus

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Maybe up until a certain age, there is innocence? Certainly, a newborn doesn't mean any harm but I have seen some pretty evil 5-year-olds. :haha:
 

India Actual

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See, I don't believe that bad behaviour is learned. You ever see a child who has never been told "no"?
That in and of itself is learned bad behavior. Parental figures spoiling someone to the point of entitlement. Then comes the expectation that their every wish needs to be fulfilled.
 

Kid Goku

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Theologically/philosophically, all of us are inherently evil. You ever leave a kid to their own devices? They have to be taught to be good people, to share, to care for others (and that BS that children learn racism from their parents is BS).

So to come back to the actual question: Saiyans have to be taught to be good. Goku was modelled good traits from Grampa Gohan who almost certainly was role-modelled by his father (and Roshi) who would have been role-modelled by his parents... You look at the Bible (and extra cultures that we know about outside of that) and you have all these cultures that are doing child sacrifice, ritual beatings and killings, stealing. What Israel was prescribed from God is literally what our moral laws are built on, and those are wholly unique to nations founded on those - other countries only have a handful of them, not all of them.

Saiyan nature definitely doesn't help their cause, but at the end of the day they're broken by the same inherent flaws as we are. It's just their own cultural sin tends to be centred more on the wrath and pride.

I wouldnt say we are born EVIL were just born with Animal Instinmcts like Self presarvation and such! (Racism for example could exist based on Predators in the wild) But true Saiyan Instincts are definitly Evil by our standarts!
 

Giga Hertz

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I wouldnt say we are born EVIL were just born with Animal Instinmcts like Self presarvation and such! (Racism for example could exist based on Predators in the wild) But true Saiyan Instincts are definitly Evil by our standarts!
That's what I'm saying though; the innate preservation, selfishness, jealousy, etc. is the root of our evil.
 

Punkhead

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I never honestly thought the Saiyan race was inherently evil. I do see how they can come off as that way, but they are a warrior society like Rome or even Sparta was. As well, I do think that when they become enslaved by Friezia they did more destructive/evil, I suppose you can say, because they were tired of being under the rule of Freiza and they didn't want to outright do a rebellion because they figured they would lose, s/o to Bardock for being a real one.
 

The Art Kingdom

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The way I see it it seems pretty clear that in the original vision of what Akira had intended to be they where in fact evil, mainly cause of their brute behaviour and natural nature to fight led them to actions that we would deem "evil" However it is important to note that this narrative has changed trought the years and the current way it has been portrayed since Bardock was changed as a character is definetly more complex.
 
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