How strong is Kefla?

Beerus

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Caulifa and especially Kale showed how strong they were as individual fighters. The only two other fighters in the ToP that seemed to give them trouble was Top and Jiren.

Up until they fused, even Goku had trouble keeping up. As Kefla though, it seemed as if their fusion was the strongest in the entire tournament. This was short lived once Goku went Ultra Instinct on them. For a moment though, they seemed evenly matched but Goku is known for holding himself back for the sake of Goku reasoning.

Because of that, there is no clear indication of their fused power. How strong do you think Kefla really is?
 

LividJay

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It's all rushed bullshit, IMO. I'm not sure on the timeline, but...it was all "learned" too quickly. They didn't seem to have to work hard. They had inside knowledge from Universe 7 Saiyans. They didn't have any struggle and they equate it to a "tingly feeling in the back"? I really want to smack the hell outta Toriyama for this. Such stupid bullshit.

Ugh. Ok. I'm ranting. But seriously. Fuck Kefla. Fuck Kale (also fuck kale the vegetable). And Fuck Caulifla (because of that hot tube top, but also for being overly powerful without working for it). Even with Goten and Trunks, there was tons of laziness. The more and more we discuss newer stuff, the more and more I'm starting to dislike the franchise.
 

Beerus

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It's all rushed bullshit, IMO. I'm not sure on the timeline, but...it was all "learned" too quickly. They didn't seem to have to work hard. They had inside knowledge from Universe 7 Saiyans. They didn't have any struggle and they equate it to a "tingly feeling in the back"? I really want to smack the hell outta Toriyama for this. Such stupid bullshit.

Ugh. Ok. I'm ranting. But seriously. Fuck Kefla. Fuck Kale (also fuck kale the vegetable). And Fuck Caulifla (because of that hot tube top, but also for being overly powerful without working for it). Even with Goten and Trunks, there was tons of laziness. The more and more we discuss newer stuff, the more and more I'm starting to dislike the franchise.
Oh I get what you are saying and feel the same way. What happened with them in the story was almost a slap in the face to what we seen Goku, Vegeta, and Gohan go through. To make it such a simple thing any Saiyan could do took away the magic behind it. I actually chose to just completely ignore that in the story. I feel like it will be something that is later brushed under the rug and forgotten about, like Saiyan tails. lol

But to be fair to the tails, those were cool concepts that should have stuck around better. This is just silly what they did with the Universe 6 Saiyans.
 
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India Actual

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I don't know how I feel about Kale and Caulifla because both mediums portray differing pictures of the characters. In the anime, they were more fleshed out and had deeper bonds with one another. Super Saiyan 2 Kefla fighting off Ultra Instinct Sign Goku was kind of preposterous but at least we got that sweet point blank in the face Kamehameha. In the manga, they had no direction interaction with Goku or Vegeta at all. The reason for their fusion was even more rushed and dumb then they got taken about by Gohan. Which I mean is good for Gohan because it shows that he's not a chump anymore. That aside though, time will tell what direction we they take the characters.

As an aside, there is an explanation to the tingly back thing that is lost on us here in the west. If you give it a deeper look it makes sense and I get it. I'll let someone more entertaining than me explain.
 
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Beerus

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I don't know how I feel about Kale and Caulifla because both mediums portray differing pictures of the characters. In the anime, they were more fleshed out and had deeper bonds with one another. Super Saiyan 2 Kefla fighting off Ultra Instinct Sign Goku was kind of preposterous but at least we got that sweet point blank in the face Kamehameha. In the manga, they had no direction interaction with Goku or Vegeta at all.
So they really changed it up then? I don't mind the fusion or anything like that but it still bugs me how rushed it all was. Look at the point from where Goku and Vegeta were at the beginning of Z to the point of both of them reaching Super Saiyan and it just puts a sour taste in your mouth. It kind of bugged me with Goten and Trunks (kid) as well. I get that it progresses the story along quicker and it allows them to be included more but it still makes it feel like weaker storytelling overall.

As an aside, there is an explanation to the tingly back thing that is lost on us here in the west. If you give it a deeper look it makes sense and I get it. I'll let someone more entertaining than me explain.
And I knew about this, but didn't make the connection. I am not widely familiar with it but I know it has to do with life source and energy because the spine connects to everything, similar to a tree and the roots connecting to the earth in a sense. This would otherwise be fine but we were meant to believe that it was down to strength and heart. Remember when Vegeta was super strong and still struggling to reach it? It was said a number of times to be down to emotion, not the spine thing. Had it always been the case, I'd be on board but it wasn't. Goku watched his best friend be killed and his concern from him lit the flame to take him to the next level. I guess it bothers me because they oversimplified it while also giving it deeper meaning. I mean this way has WAY more meaning but it should have been explained better. I don't know, maybe I am just being picky. lol
 

India Actual

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And I knew about this, but didn't make the connection. I am not widely familiar with it but I know it has to do with life source and energy because the spine connects to everything, similar to a tree and the roots connecting to the earth in a sense. This would otherwise be fine but we were meant to believe that it was down to strength and heart. Remember when Vegeta was super strong and still struggling to reach it? It was said a number of times to be down to emotion, not the spine thing. Had it always been the case, I'd be on board but it wasn't. Goku watched his best friend be killed and his concern from him lit the flame to take him to the next level. I guess it bothers me because they oversimplified it while also giving it deeper meaning. I mean this way has WAY more meaning but it should have been explained better. I don't know, maybe I am just being picky. lol
It's like they said in the video. The dub rewrites things and retcons elements that aren't in the Japanese source material. The whole "It comes from a need not a desire" line was Funimation poo poo. The Super Saiyan transformation does come from strong emotion which exists as both a need and a desire by the individual to overcome circumstances outside their control. All that raw emotion comes from a powerful place. In eastern culture if they want to chalk it up to chi/ki, a certain chakra point, etc. I can accept that and I think we all mean the same thing when we think about it. Some bad guy is going to get the boots put to them.
:v7:
 
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Beerus

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It's like they said in the video. The dub rewrites things and retcons elements that aren't in the Japanese source material. The whole "It comes from a need not a desire" line was Funimation poo poo. The Super Saiyan transformation does come from strong emotion which exists as both a need and a desire by the individual to overcome circumstances outside their control. All that raw emotion comes from a powerful place. In eastern culture if they want to chalk it up to chi/ki, a certain chakra point, etc. I can accept that and I think we all mean the same thing when we think about it. Some bad guy is going to get the boots put to them.
:v7:
I guess it would have helped to read the manga and watch the subbed version then. lol I still wish it would have been explained better, even more so now on all accounts.

And like you said, it resulted in one hell of an ending for the battle between them and Goku. First time I saw it I was so hyped. Gave me chills.
 
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Giant Saiyan Penis

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In the manga, she was stronger than PSSB tier based on Kale being in that league already and Kefla stated to be far stronger than her components. She was nowhere near UIO Goku or SSBE Vegeta, though.

Anime-wise, she was on par with 2nd UIO Goku in regard to power, but his ability to dodge her attacks was keeping her on the ropes. Despite this, his offense lacked power, so his attacks weren't doing much damage overall.
 

Beerus

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Anime-wise, she was on par with 2nd UIO Goku in regard to power, but his ability to dodge her attacks was keeping her on the ropes. Despite this, his offense lacked power, so his attacks weren't doing much damage overall.
You think there was a chance, even in this form, Goku was holding back? He has a nasty habit of doing it. lol
 

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You think there was a chance, even in this form, Goku was holding back? He has a nasty habit of doing it. lol
I really doubt it. There is no statement or implication of him having done so. He knew the danger of the situation and was trying to eliminate her hastily.
 

Beerus

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I really doubt it. There is no statement or implication of him having done so. He knew the danger of the situation and was trying to eliminate her hastily.
Yeah I suppose but you never know with him, in the anime at least. The dude has set records for not taking things seriously enough lol
 

Notaka

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Speaking anime-wise, she was stated to be stronger than Goku when he used UIO the first time and I could see her being as strong as Goku when he tapped into it the second time. I believe she had more raw power than him but lost due to his auto-dodge thing.

Doesn't really make sense but eh, Super's powerscaling is doodoo
 
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