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Tien Deserves Better
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<blockquote data-quote="Turtle" data-source="post: 32636" data-attributes="member: 1394"><p>So this is like a two part thing now: 1 is whether humans can reach beyond SSJ; 2 is whether Tien should.</p><p></p><p>If we look at Roshi, he trained probably most of his natural life, and is hundreds of years old now with a power level IIRC somewhere between 100-300.</p><p></p><p>Yet the DB gang including humans managed to surpass him in a relatively very short time. You might say Yamcha and the like are extreme outliers, but something tells me if there was a prequel to Dragon Ball from Roshi's timeline, there wouldn't be (any) guys out there as strong as the early DBZ fighters.</p><p></p><p>There isn't really any logical consistency; Toriyama has to just keep vertical scaling the characters because that's how the plot goes. In that way, I suppose Tien could keep getting stronger and stronger.</p><p></p><p>If we self-contain it to just DBZ, I don't see why he would get that strong. Once you get to SSJ level IIRC, the power levels start to increase incredibly, from single digit million base form Goku to 100 million SSJ to billions.</p><p></p><p>I assume the Saiyan zenkai hack that sort of went away after the Namek saga kind of blends itself into the way post-namek saga Saiyans seems to get so much stronger even in their base forms compared to humans. Saiyans seem to get much more out of training than humans do later on in the series.</p><p></p><p>I don't know how Tien would get so strong then? Gravity training? I still don't believe he'd increase in strength the same way that the Saiyans would.</p><p></p><p>I would have to go over the whole DBZ again to see how much training the humans did post-namek saga. I recall training in other world, but remembered that wasn't canon. It does seem like they just stopped training, which is certainly going to stagnate their power. </p><p></p><p>Although if they believed that with training they could reach SSJ levels, then why would they stop? I always got the feeling that they realized their human limitations would either never take them to beyond SSJ levels or it would be so challenging and inefficient it would take beyond their entire lives.</p><p></p><p>This led me to believe there are sort of innate ceilings, where humans and Saiyans can be on the same levels at lower levels, but the Saiyan will scale much better and eventually rapidly outpace them. I also figured half-Saiyans start off their lives with more power than regular saiyans from some sort of hybrid benefit (e.g. young gohan) but have lower ceilings than full-blooded saiyans (e.g. a half-saiyan would never reach SSJ3-4 (not fused)). Maybe this is just my own subjective head canon logic, but that how I see it.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Turtle, post: 32636, member: 1394"] So this is like a two part thing now: 1 is whether humans can reach beyond SSJ; 2 is whether Tien should. If we look at Roshi, he trained probably most of his natural life, and is hundreds of years old now with a power level IIRC somewhere between 100-300. Yet the DB gang including humans managed to surpass him in a relatively very short time. You might say Yamcha and the like are extreme outliers, but something tells me if there was a prequel to Dragon Ball from Roshi's timeline, there wouldn't be (any) guys out there as strong as the early DBZ fighters. There isn't really any logical consistency; Toriyama has to just keep vertical scaling the characters because that's how the plot goes. In that way, I suppose Tien could keep getting stronger and stronger. If we self-contain it to just DBZ, I don't see why he would get that strong. Once you get to SSJ level IIRC, the power levels start to increase incredibly, from single digit million base form Goku to 100 million SSJ to billions. I assume the Saiyan zenkai hack that sort of went away after the Namek saga kind of blends itself into the way post-namek saga Saiyans seems to get so much stronger even in their base forms compared to humans. Saiyans seem to get much more out of training than humans do later on in the series. I don't know how Tien would get so strong then? Gravity training? I still don't believe he'd increase in strength the same way that the Saiyans would. I would have to go over the whole DBZ again to see how much training the humans did post-namek saga. I recall training in other world, but remembered that wasn't canon. It does seem like they just stopped training, which is certainly going to stagnate their power. Although if they believed that with training they could reach SSJ levels, then why would they stop? I always got the feeling that they realized their human limitations would either never take them to beyond SSJ levels or it would be so challenging and inefficient it would take beyond their entire lives. This led me to believe there are sort of innate ceilings, where humans and Saiyans can be on the same levels at lower levels, but the Saiyan will scale much better and eventually rapidly outpace them. I also figured half-Saiyans start off their lives with more power than regular saiyans from some sort of hybrid benefit (e.g. young gohan) but have lower ceilings than full-blooded saiyans (e.g. a half-saiyan would never reach SSJ3-4 (not fused)). Maybe this is just my own subjective head canon logic, but that how I see it. [/QUOTE]
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