Are goten and trunks able to go ssj3 because gotenks can?

[mundomania]

With gogeta, he can only achieve forms that both goku and vegeta have obtained. However, this doesn't seem true with gotenks. We've only ever seen trunks and goten go ssj, so did they just achieve ssj3 off-camera, or does fusion not work how, I at least, though it did?

 

[Beerus]

I always assumed SS3 was a learned skilled that wasn't so much about power but rather power consumption. Trunks and Goten together have more power combined and therefore can burn through more but it seems odd that neither seemed to have learned it on their own. I really don't have any logical explanation for this. I think it was something they decided to do for marketing and overlooked this.

 

[Super Kami Guru]

I assume they can, but yeah, it's something they never legitimately disclosed, so who knows, maybe only Gotenks is strong enough for it?

 

[mundomania]

I always assumed SS3 was a learned skilled that wasn't so much about power but rather power consumption. Trunks and Goten together have more power combined and therefore can burn through more but it seems odd that neither seemed to have learned it on their own. I really don't have any logical explanation for this. I think it was something they decided to do for marketing and overlooked this.

I think this makes sense, but in that case isn't something like ssgss 3 possible then?

 

[Super Kami Guru]

I think this makes sense, but in that case isn't something like ssgss 3 possible then?

This all depends on a certain person and their Toriyaltzheimers.

 

[mundomania]

This all depends on a certain person and their Toriyaltzheimers.

In that case we'll never know and it'll be lost in history.

 

[Super Kami Guru]

In that case we'll never know and it'll be lost in history.

Just like Launch

 

[India Actual]

In the anime we see Gotenks hit SSJ, SSJ2 (Very briefly), and then SSJ3. In my own opinion, the only reason Gotenks can utilize SSJ3 is because the compound nature of the fusion being able to handle the transformation for the duration it has been shown to be able to withstand. Mere minutes if my memory serves.

Non-canon source, but in my own work there is a portion of the story where Shihori, 13 years old at the time, transforms into SSJ3 through sheer rage. It puts such stress on her small and young body that it lasts no more than a minute at best. It leaves her completely at the mercy of her opponent.

So realistically where we see the only individual character, being Goku, use the transformation in a normal mortal body. It lasts what, 10 minutes and that's being generous. Until he was able to improve his physique even further and somewhat handle the stress of the ki drain on his body. A full grown, highly fit, adult male could barely handle the transformation. Until I see proof it could be mastered then it's a worthless transformation with more downsides than positives. It's like firing all the ammo you have in one giant salvo and not preparing for the contingency that it might turn into siege warfare.

 

[Super Kami Guru]

In the anime we see Gotenks hit SSJ, SSJ2 (Very briefly), and then SSJ3. In my own opinion, the only reason Gotenks can utilize SSJ3 is because the compound nature of the fusion being able to handle the transformation for the duration it has been shown to be able to withstand. Mere minutes if my memory serves.

Non-canon source, but in my own work there is a portion of the story where Shihori, 13 years old at the time, transforms into SSJ3 through sheer rage. It puts such stress on her small and young body that it lasts no more than a minute at best. It leaves her completely at the mercy of her opponent.

So realistically where we see the only individual character, being Goku, use the transformation in a normal mortal body. It lasts what, 10 minutes and that's being generous. Until he was able to improve his physique even further and somewhat handle the stress of the ki drain on his body. A full grown, highly fit, adult male could barely handle the transformation. Until I see proof it could be mastered then it's a worthless transformation with more downsides than positives. It's like firing all the ammo you have in one giant salvo and not preparing for the contingency that it might turn into siege warfare.

I forgot about the massive drain and Goku's inability to hold it for the first couple of times he transformed, you're absolutely right. It makes sense that only someone like Goku (and maybe Vegeta) could handle it, and only after a lot of training.

 

[India Actual]

I forgot about the massive drain and Goku's inability to hold it for the first couple of times he transformed, you're absolutely right. It makes sense that only someone like Goku (and maybe Vegeta) could handle it, and only after a lot of training.

Vegeta saw it himself in action and never pushed for it because being the better tactician he saw the down sides of the transformation. The negatives outweigh the positives. So he just kept training SSJ2 which as we saw in Super can be mastered and equal the strength of SSJ3. Goku said as much to Future Trunks when he sparred with him.

 

[Super Kami Guru]

Vegeta saw it himself in action and never pushed for it because being the better tactician he saw the down sides of the transformation. The negatives outweigh the positives. So he just kept training SSJ2 which as we saw in Super can be mastered and equal the strength of SSJ3. Goku said as much to Future Trunks when he sparred with him.

Definitely the smarter move, no point even contemplating a form that wipes you out so quickly.

 

[LividJay]

My view: they can't without being fused. Not at the age and power level.

 

[mundomania]

My view: they can't without being fused. Not at the age and power level.

I agree with this. Ssj3 is a power-based form, so more energy is needed which can only be obtained through fusion.

 

[India Actual]

I agree with this. Ssj3 is a power-based form, so more energy is needed which can only be obtained through fusion.

Another point is that Metamoran fusion in and of itself provides a power boost instead of just combining the two fusee's power levels together. We really haven't seen Gotenks in a long drawn out battle like he was during the fight with Buu, but he managed what 10 minutes out of the 30? Not bad for a 7 and 8 year old.

 

[mundomania]

Another point is that Metamoran fusion in and of itself provides a power boost instead of just combining the two fusee's power levels together. We really haven't seen Gotenks in a long drawn out battle like he was during the fight with Buu, but he managed what 10 minutes out of the 30? Not bad for a 7 and 8 year old.

I mean when you take into account that the lower the blood percentage of saiyans gets, the more potential they have, it does make sense. We can add that to the list of awesome potential gone to waste.

 

[India Actual]

I mean when you take into account that the lower the blood percentage of saiyans gets, the more potential they have, it does make sense. We can add that to the list of awesome potential gone to waste.

So, as Toriyama wrote it and expanded upon during an interview, Goten and Trunks were able to transform so easily because of their higher S-Cell count. The more peaceful the Saiyan the higher the S-Cell count. Which speaks to why the war-like Saiyans of Universe 7 hadn't seen a Super Saiyan in a thousand years.

So you make a good point about hybrids having inherently more potential than their full-blood parents. This has been shown to be true to a point, but the Saiyans desire for battle keeps them reaching new heights while hybrid Saiyans don't have such a full-on desire for battle. They may enjoy it in the moment, but they don't think about it 24/7 like the full Saiyans do.

 

[mundomania]

So, as Toriyama wrote it and expanded upon during an interview, Goten and Trunks were able to transform so easily because of their higher S-Cell count. The more peaceful the Saiyan the higher the S-Cell count. Which speaks to why the war-like Saiyans of Universe 7 hadn't seen a Super Saiyan in a thousand years.

So you make a good point about hybrids having inherently more potential than their full-blood parents. This has been shown to be true to a point, but the Saiyans desire for battle keeps them reaching new heights while hybrid Saiyans don't have such a full-on desire for battle. They may enjoy it in the moment, but they don't think about it 24/7 like the full Saiyans do.

Kind of unfortunate considering the potential, but I suppose otherwise saiyans like goku and vegeta would become irrelevant.