Dragon Ball Z How strong is Krillin exactly by End of Z?

[Notaka]

You can't deny that he did say this to reassure her, however. She looked at Krillin's opponent and saw that he was times larger than he was, it's understandable she'd be worried. The last part is what he told himself, the "among earthlings" part, was what he said to himself.

Like I said, I can see why Krillin is the strongest human considering what Toriyama stated, but that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it.

 

[LividJay]

While they state Krillin is the strongest, by observation from watching the anime to me it always seemed like Tien was the strongest of the humans. But it is what it is...

 

[Yoshi]

The way I see it is Tenshinhan was the strongest in Part I and the Saiyan Arc, and Krillin was the strongest in the Freeza, Cell, and Boo Arcs.

 

[Beerus]

While they state Krillin is the strongest, by observation from watching the anime to me it always seemed like Tien was the strongest of the humans. But it is what it is...

I never viewed him as human though given his third eye and optional 4 arms. He is like half-human at best. He is more of a mutant humanoid of sorts.

 

[Giant Saiyan Penis]

We're basing our calculations on evidence like feats, statements, events, etc.

It's called objective measurement.

There is no need to sass me.

 

[Giant Saiyan Penis]

You can't deny that he did say this to reassure her, however. She looked at Krillin's opponent and saw that he was times larger than he was, it's understandable she'd be worried. The last part is what he told himself, the "among earthlings" part, was what he said to himself.
View attachment 516

Like I said, I can see why Krillin is the strongest human considering what Toriyama stated, but that doesn't mean I necessarily agree with it.

Right, so if he specifically didn't say that part to her, then that part was not in combination with reassuring her and would stand alone as a clue to the audience.

 

[Notaka]

I agree when you put it like that. I understand Krillin being the strongest earthling in the namek and android sagas but it doesn't make sense for me to consider him the strongest since he never trained after. And we know what happened to Gohan, Krillin would be as bad if not worse. So I guess the gap Krillin made during the frieza arc between him and Tien is just too big.

 

[LividJay]

I never viewed him as human though given his third eye and optional 4 arms. He is like half-human at best. He is more of a mutant humanoid of sorts.

yeah, I always wondered about that. I'd say he's more of a mutant

 

[ahill1]

That's a big reach. It's sensical to compare force vs force feats, but clearly the series has distinguished speed and reflexes from overall power. After all, Trunk's epiphany about the "Ascended Saiyan" form was a concrete statement about how speed and power do not correlate. You can't say that Cell's Power level was greater than Ascended Trunks', just because Cell had more speed and better reflexes... Cell himself stated it was otherwise.

Not only that, but you're basing it on something that is merely a product of animation. You can't hang on every little small detail that animation yields, it will warp your perception of what's really going on.

When speed and reflexes are supposed to be different and not linear with one's power output, it's generally noticed. And in the example you brought up, such was the case specifically due to Trunks' inflated muscles, which hampered his speed. With Tenshinhan or with Goku we have no reason to assume that was the case, so I see no problem in taking that as an indicative of comparable speed reflexes. It being a small detail doesn't invalidate the feat either... it means it wasn't made a fuss or a big deal about it, but for as minor as it is, it can be used considering the lack of overall evidence amounting to a significant and objective placement.

 

[Blockinlick]

When speed and reflexes are supposed to be different and not linear with one's power output, it's generally noticed.

You assume that you know when it is supposed to be or isn't. You're operating on conjecture.

With Tenshinhan or with Goku we have no reason to assume that was the case

The opposite is also true, as we have no reason to assume it wasn't the case either.

It being a small detail doesn't invalidate the feat either

Was it shown or emphasized in the manga? The anime adds a whole lot of small details that mean nothing, unless, as you are, you try to assign it meaning.

 

[ahill1]

You assume that you know when it is supposed to be or isn't. You're operating on conjecture.




The opposite is also true, as we have no reason to assume it wasn't the case either.




Was it shown or emphasized in the manga? The anime adds a whole lot of small details that mean nothing, unless, as you are, you try to assign it meaning.

I assume that when it isn't shown to be, then it isn't.

With nothing to back up that case as also an exception that runs out the rule, I've no reason to assume it is. So no reason to evaluate that example as them only being comparable in speed reflexes and not on fighting prowess unless we get a clue that one of these fighters was off sync in one aspect.

There wasn't an outright statement emphasizing how well Ten dodged that in comparison to base Goku, still doesn't mean we can't draw an implication from that, specially when those are pretty scarce in regards to the Earthlings in general.

 

[Blockinlick]

I assume that when it isn't shown to be, then it isn't.

With nothing to back up that case as also an exception that runs out the rule, I've no reason to assume it is. So no reason to evaluate that example as them only being comparable in speed reflexes and not on fighting prowess unless we get a clue that one of these fighters was off sync in one aspect.

There wasn't an outright statement emphasizing how well Ten dodged that in comparison to base Goku, still doesn't mean we can't draw an implication from that, specially when those are pretty scarce in regards to the Earthlings in general.

I still stand by the sentiment that we can't assign meaning to every little bit of animation. I pretty much ask myself "Do I think Toriyama wrote this scene to tell us something?"... in this case, it's a definite no. It's just something the animators did. That's all the meaning it has.

 

[ahill1]

Well, fair enough then. I'd generally go down this route as well if there were other implications telling a different story. Considering we are in the dark concerning anything pointing to the Earthlings' strength, I personally see no problem in using this little piece as evidence even if it wasn't part of Toriyama's intention.

 

[Blockinlick]

Well, fair enough then. I'd generally go down this route as well if there were other implications telling a different story. Considering we are in the dark concerning anything pointing to the Earthlings' strength, I personally see no problem in using this little piece as evidence even if it wasn't part of Toriyama's intention.

I get that, but I'd rather just accept that we're in the dark than set a precedent for using little stuff like that to define things.

I mean, how many times in the anime does Bulma or Chi Chi hit one of the Z-Fighters over the head and they act like it actually hurt them? We have to draw a line somewhere and say "Okay, we can't just assign meaning to every little thing, unless it seems meant to be taken that way". Otherwise, Bulma and Chi Chi have always been as strong as Goku & Vegeta lol.

 

[ahill1]

I mean, how many times in the anime does Bulma or Chi Chi hit one of the Z-Fighters over the head and they act like it actually hurt them? We have to draw a line somewhere and say "Okay, we can't just assign meaning to every little thing, unless it seems meant to be taken that way". Otherwise, Bulma and Chi Chi have always been as strong as Goku & Vegeta lol.

Yeah, but those cases are considerably different as we know they are set up for gags. Bulma has hit and hurt Goku some times as well despite the obvious power difference and the way Chi-Chi orders Goku around was enough for Piccolo to jokingly nominate her the "strongest behind the cosmos". That's just the Shonen female character power for ya lol, similar to Nami in One Piece swelling Luffy's face over simple punches.

Here it's a minor scene and detail but it isn't a set up for a gag or haven't the same precedent those aforementioned scenes have. For instance, when Piccolo leaves the RoSaT and unpretentiously asks Goku whether he was a match for Cell, many take Trunks' one panel surprising reaction at his uselessness as a powerful clue for Piccolo being pretty relevant to at least Trunks and Vegeta at that point in time. Yeah, it was a measly panel of Trunks being drawn with a not so blatant reaction, but that still doesn't prevent us from using that detail, as little flashy as that was. I don't think that the lack of flashiness in a certain detail or scene is enough to completely sweep it under the rug if it has a solid foundation and in the absence of other clues pointing at a difference scenario.

 

[Blockinlick]

Yeah, but those cases are considerably different as we know they are set up for gags. Bulma has hit and hurt Goku some times as well despite the obvious power difference and the way Chi-Chi orders Goku around was enough for Piccolo to jokingly nominate her the "strongest behind the cosmos". That's just the Shonen female character power for ya lol, similar to Nami in One Piece swelling Luffy's face over simple punches.

Here it's a minor scene and detail but it isn't a set up for a gag or haven't the same precedent those aforementioned scenes have. For instance, when Piccolo leaves the RoSaT and unpretentiously asks Goku whether he was a match for Cell, many take Trunks' one panel surprising reaction at his uselessness as a powerful clue for Piccolo being pretty relevant to at least Trunks and Vegeta at that point in time. Yeah, it was a measly panel of Trunks being drawn with a not so blatant reaction, but that still doesn't prevent us from using that detail, as little flashy as that was. I don't think that the lack of flashiness in a certain detail or scene is enough to completely sweep it under the rug if it has a solid foundation and in the absence of other clues pointing at a difference scenario.

Well, then we get into semantic ambiguity of what a "gag" is. I remember having a discussion on Neoseeker years ago where someone attempted to dismiss nearly all of Gotenks' scenes as gag scenes in order to avoid bloating.

 

[Giant Saiyan Penis]

That is kind of unnecessary avoidance we don't need in this community.^