I'm not posting this in the Super category because it has a much broader scope than just Super and is more an attack on TOEI.
This hinges a bit on conspiracy theory, but I don't think Toriyama wrote the bulk of Super, and yes I mean the manga.
TOEI writers have a history of recycling their old ideas and I see it almost as much in Super as Idid in GT.
For instance, in GT
-The whole concept of Tuffles getting revenge (Baby) was already done in their older movie: Eradication of the Saiyans.
-The concept of there being consequences to overusing the Dragon Balls (Syn Shenron) was also reused I think. But I don't recall which movie.
-They reused Cooler.
Then you have Super.
-Kale was obviously TOEI trying to canonize Broly. And of course he himself became canon later.
-The concept of an evil Goku counterpart (Goku Black), was done with Turles in their older movie Tree of Might.
To me, Super just reeks of the same TOEI fan-fiction as GT. As if it's just a do-over for TOEI after GT was a trainwreck.
And they took every opportunity they could to make their old ideas canon.
Lately, I've read a lot about Toriyama's writing history. About how he wanted it to end at Frieza and begrudgingly wrote the Cell Arc due to demand and that it was the same thing for the Buu Arc. He's wanted to do this less and less with every arc.
I think he got careless with the Buu Arc and it's why we got things like Gotenks.
Fast forward to Super and I think it went like this:
-Toriyama agrees to a one-off post-Z movie.
-He writes Battle of Gods and it's a hit
-He's pressured to write another movie, but he insists that he doesn't want to.
-TOEI strikes a deal where they do the writing and he just edits & signs off on it to make sure it isn't terrible... like GT.
-TOEI writes Resurrection F and it's kind of a hit too. If you go back and compare the two movies you can tell the difference between TOEI's work in RoF and Toriyama's work in BoG.
-TOEI pressures Toeiyama into starting another series and strike the same deal regarding the writing but with the manga as well. Toriyama is to be credited, since fans would reject it if they knew he truly didn't.
So what we really ended up with was another GT. Albeit TOEI learned a few things and Toriyama's input, even if minimal, made it an improvement to some degree.
I can't prove this is what happened, but I'm rewatching Super with the wife right now and it just seems glaringly obvious to me that it's a product of TOEI moreso than Toriyama.
This hinges a bit on conspiracy theory, but I don't think Toriyama wrote the bulk of Super, and yes I mean the manga.
TOEI writers have a history of recycling their old ideas and I see it almost as much in Super as Idid in GT.
For instance, in GT
-The whole concept of Tuffles getting revenge (Baby) was already done in their older movie: Eradication of the Saiyans.
-The concept of there being consequences to overusing the Dragon Balls (Syn Shenron) was also reused I think. But I don't recall which movie.
-They reused Cooler.
Then you have Super.
-Kale was obviously TOEI trying to canonize Broly. And of course he himself became canon later.
-The concept of an evil Goku counterpart (Goku Black), was done with Turles in their older movie Tree of Might.
To me, Super just reeks of the same TOEI fan-fiction as GT. As if it's just a do-over for TOEI after GT was a trainwreck.
And they took every opportunity they could to make their old ideas canon.
Lately, I've read a lot about Toriyama's writing history. About how he wanted it to end at Frieza and begrudgingly wrote the Cell Arc due to demand and that it was the same thing for the Buu Arc. He's wanted to do this less and less with every arc.
I think he got careless with the Buu Arc and it's why we got things like Gotenks.
Fast forward to Super and I think it went like this:
-Toriyama agrees to a one-off post-Z movie.
-He writes Battle of Gods and it's a hit
-He's pressured to write another movie, but he insists that he doesn't want to.
-TOEI strikes a deal where they do the writing and he just edits & signs off on it to make sure it isn't terrible... like GT.
-TOEI writes Resurrection F and it's kind of a hit too. If you go back and compare the two movies you can tell the difference between TOEI's work in RoF and Toriyama's work in BoG.
-TOEI pressures Toeiyama into starting another series and strike the same deal regarding the writing but with the manga as well. Toriyama is to be credited, since fans would reject it if they knew he truly didn't.
So what we really ended up with was another GT. Albeit TOEI learned a few things and Toriyama's input, even if minimal, made it an improvement to some degree.
I can't prove this is what happened, but I'm rewatching Super with the wife right now and it just seems glaringly obvious to me that it's a product of TOEI moreso than Toriyama.
