Dragon Ball Z Poll: How strong do you think Pui Pui was?

[Blockinlick]

I think he's about 50,000 PL

Enough for Supreme Kai to be concerned for Vegeta, but not enough for anyone else to be concerned.

The Ginyu Force were similarly labeled some of the universes strongest fighters as well.

 

[Beerus]

Supreme Kai underestimated both Vegeta and Goku, and later Gohan. I don't think he realized how powerful they all were. What would you put Vegeta at during their battle?

 

[Yoshi]

The Base Saiyajins were far above Freeza who is at least 120,000,000 if you follow the Daiz numbers. That puts Pocus (Or Pui Pui) far above 120,000,000 and thus, far, far, far above 1,000,000.

 

[India Actual]

Base Vegeta after 7 years of training in the gravity chamber was probably equal to his Super Saiyan form during the Cell arc. I think it's fair to say he could get 50 times stronger in 7 years after tearing it up every day like a maniac.

 

[Blockinlick]

The Base Saiyajins were far above Freeza who is at least 120,000,000 if you follow the Daiz numbers. That puts Pocus (Or Pui Pui) far above 120,000,000 and thus, far, far, far above 1,000,000.

Pui didn't touch Vegeta though, so on what basis are you comparing Pui Pui to base Vegeta anyway?

If you say Vegeta isn't suppressing, then Supreme Kais concern makes no sense.

If you say he is suppressing, then Pui Pui has to be far weaker than Vegeta's base and Supreme Kais concern should be taken lightly.

If you are suggesting that Supreme Kai can't sense power levels, then you can't use his concern at all to gage Pui Pui's strength.

That kind of boxes it in to Pui Pui being massively weaker than Vegeta, but HOW much weaker is the question.

But one piece of evidence that severely lowers his power is the fact that he thinks 10x gravity would even matter.

I don't think 10x Gravity would even bother suppressed Frieza... but MAYBE the Ginyu Force would be affected.

As low as 30,000, at most 100,000, probably 50,000.

 

[India Actual]

Pui didn't touch Vegeta though, so on what basis are you comparing Pui Pui to base Vegeta anyway?

If you say Vegeta isn't suppressing, then Supreme Kais concern makes no sense.

If you say he is suppressing, then Pui Pui has to be far weaker than Vegeta's base and Supreme Kais concern should be taken lightly.

If you are suggesting that Supreme Kai can't sense power levels, then you can't use his concern at all to gage Pui Pui's strength.

That kind of boxes it in to Pui Pui being massively weaker than Vegeta, but HOW much weaker is the question.

But one piece of evidence that severely lowers his power is the fact that he thinks 10x gravity would even matter.

I don't think 10x Gravity would even bother suppressed Frieza... but MAYBE the Ginyu Force would be affected.

As low as 30,000, at most 100,000, probably 50,000.

I think we have to assume that Shin can sense power levels because he is the Supreme Kai of Universe 7. He can manipulate ki and has a whole host of other godly powers that the other kais display. It would be dumb if King Kai aka North Kaio can sense people across the galaxy but Shin can't sense power levels. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Blockinlick]

I think we have to assume that Shin can sense power levels because he is the Supreme Kai of Universe 7. He can manipulate ki and has a whole host of other godly powers that the other kais display. It would be dumb if King Kai aka North Kaio can sense people across the galaxy but Shin can't sense power levels. Just my 2 cents.

Definitely, I was just framing the debate by ruling out every angle.

 

[India Actual]

Definitely, I was just framing the debate by ruling out every angle.

Let me play devil's advocate and state that perhaps Shin would be powerful enough to defeat Pui Pui. There are guide book sources that heavily infer that Shin is equal to Cell games Goku in terms of power. You still have to take them with a grain of salt, but I say it's a fair estimate. Pui Pui was just trash.

 

[Blockinlick]

Let me play devil's advocate and state that perhaps Shin would be powerful enough to defeat Pui Pui. There are guide book sources that heavily infer that Shin is equal to Cell games Goku in terms of power. You still have to take them with a grain of salt, but I say it's a fair estimate. Pui Pui was just trash.

Oh I definitely think Supreme Kai could be that strong, but I interpret him as more concerned for Vegeta than for himself.

 

[LividJay]

I would say that Shin can definitely sense power levels and his concern for Vegeta is likely due to him keeping his power supressed. He thought Gohan was still the strongest at the World Tournament (at least in the dub, I don't recall what he said in the manga). I also agree that Shin is at least as powerful as Cell saga Goku. Pui Pui really was weak, IMO.

 

[Neo Xeron]

I'm going with around 50,000.

Based off the Z and Super stories the worst threats in the Universe were Buu, Frieza, and Beerus. If Pui Pui had a PL over 50,000 then he would have ranked up there, let's face it, Frieza's PL was 1 million in his second transformation and only a few people were even aware he could transform which means he was considered a universal threat in his base form. That puts top tier fighters at a PL of 150,000-500,000. Highly doubt Pui Pui could tangle with that. There's no way he's taking on first form Frieza from Z.

 

[India Actual]

I'm going with around 50,000.

Based off the Z and Super stories the worst threats in the Universe were Buu, Frieza, and Beerus. If Pui Pui had a PL over 50,000 then he would have ranked up there, let's face it, Frieza's PL was 1 million in his second transformation and only a few people were even aware he could transform which means he was considered a universal threat in his base form. That puts top tier fighters at a PL of 150,000-500,000. Highly doubt Pui Pui could tangle with that. There's no way he's taking on first form Frieza from Z.

You have to remember one thing about Dragon Ball though. All the bad guys that are fighters are scaled up as the series goes on to be a more substantial threat. So in regards to Pui Pui, he's definitely stronger than final form Freeza. It's just that Vegeta was such a beast in his base form after all that time that he made it look easy.

 

[Blockinlick]

You have to remember one thing about Dragon Ball though. All the bad guys that are fighters are scaled up as the series goes on to be a more substantial threat. So in regards to Pui Pui, he's definitely stronger than final form Freeza. It's just that Vegeta was such a beast in his base form after all that time that he made it look easy.

If Pui Pui is that strong, explain why he thought 10x gravity would matter?

 

[India Actual]

If Pui Pui is that strong, explain why he thought 10x gravity would matter?

Probably because it was his home environment and he thought it made him a big shot. You can have a really stout power level and still not be used to environmental factors like increased gravity.

 

[Blockinlick]

Probably because it was his home environment and he thought it made him a big shot. You can have a really stout power level and still not be used to environmental factors like increased gravity.

Idk. I feel like that's a reach.

 

[India Actual]

Idk. I feel like that's a reach.

Also throw out power levels because they measured energy in killi. 1 killi = 50,000 on a scouter. Dabura said a killi rating of 200-300 is easily enough to destroy a planet. Yakon was 800 killi and SSJ2 Goku took him out in a flash. I would bet Pui Pui is in the 100-200 range.

 

[Blockinlick]

I would bet Pui Pui is in the 100-200 range.

Again, based on what? What are you comparing to Pui Pui that makes you think he's that strong.

We have 3 factors

1. Supreme Kai says that Babidi recruits the most powerful fighters. But the Ginyu Force were labeled as such as well.

2. Supreme Kai is concerned. Whether it's for himself or Vegeta is up for debate, but I err on the side that it was for Vegeta with Vegeta severely suppressing himself.

3. Pui Pui thinks 10x gravity would turn the tables on an opponent clearly much stronger than he is. I think it's a stretch to suggest that anyone above 100k wouldn't know that 10x gravity is non-factor beyond that point.

We have no other evidence to look at regarding Pui Pui.

Based on that evidence, I think that arguing for Pui Pui being higher than 100,000 is a weak argument... and Whether you measure in PL or Kili's is irrelevant.

It seems to me that you're assuming that since Yakon was 800 Kili's, Pui Pui can't be that far behind... but since there's no evidence supporting that assumption, it's merely conjecture and head-canon.

 

[India Actual]

Again, based on what? What are you comparing to Pui Pui that makes you think he's that strong.

We have 3 factors

1. Supreme Kai says that Babidi recruits the most powerful fighters. But the Ginyu Force were labeled as such as well.

2. Supreme Kai is concerned. Whether it's for himself or Vegeta is up for debate, but I err on the side that it was for Vegeta with Vegeta severely suppressing himself.

3. Pui Pui thinks 10x gravity would turn the tables on an opponent clearly much stronger than he is. I think it's a stretch to suggest that anyone above 100k wouldn't know that 10x gravity is non-factor beyond that point.

We have no other evidence to look at regarding Pui Pui.

Based on that evidence, I think that arguing for Pui Pui being higher than 100,000 is a weak argument... and Whether you measure in PL or Kili's is irrelevant.

It seems to me that you're assuming that since Yakon was 800 Kili's, Pui Pui can't be that far behind... but since there's no evidence supporting that assumption, it's merely conjecture and head-canon.

Most of Dragon Ball canon is conjecture because we get fed very little from the source material or have to wait for guide books to come out to fill in the gaps. If you want to believe he's under 100,000 that's fine. If you want to believe he's 10,000, also doesn't matter. Fact of the matter is he was a complete chump that got hosed by base form Vegeta.

 

[Blockinlick]

Most of Dragon Ball canon is conjecture because we get fed very little from the source material or have to wait for guide books to come out to fill in the gaps. If you want to believe he's under 100,000 that's fine. If you want to believe he's 10,000, also doesn't matter. Fact of the matter is he was a complete chump that got hosed by base form Vegeta.

You're suggesting that both of our positions are arbitrary, but only yours is.

 

[India Actual]

You're suggesting that both of our positions are arbitrary, but only yours is.

I’m suggesting that power levels are meaningless and arbitrary. It’s why it was abandoned in the story telling almost fully at this point in the series. It’s all about character feats. Vegeta proved through his feats that he was the superior fighter and more powerful character.

So if you want to debate power level numbers as a thought experiment then that’s fine. Otherwise, they’re utterly meaningless and prove nothing. It was a metric that was created to explain to children watching the show that character A had more strength than character B. Then the numbers went from six figures to nine in the span of a few episodes.