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Beerus

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Random discussion time!

If a party is taking place and a man approaches a woman, they end up going somewhere private, rub uglies, and one or both have regrets the next day - Would classify this as "non-consensual sex"?

A. Both the man and woman are drunk.
B. The man is sober and the woman is drunk.
C. The woman is sober and the man is drunk.
D. Both the man and the woman are sober.

I am asking because a lot of men in recent years have gotten in a lot of trouble for sleeping with drunken women. The kicker is that they, themselves, were drunk as well. To me, non-consensual sex happens when one person is sober and the other is not, or both people involved are drunk. And by drunk, I don't just mean buzzed but full-on blitzed. You can't logically consent to sex when you are heavily under the influence. This means that if a sober man sleeps with a drunken woman, it can be classified as "rape" to a certain degree, the same with a sober woman sleeping with a drunken man. If both people involved are drunk though, I believe it cancels things out because you can't charge one person with "rape" without holding a double standard against the other person.

I hear a lot of cases like this happening in colleges. This is why the "rape statistics" of women are so high, or so they claim. If a woman is drunk and has sex only to later regret it, she can call it rape and get away with it, regardless if the man she slept with was sober or not.

I am not a drinker myself but I feel like more people need to address this. Unless there is consent prior to being drunk between two people, you really shouldn't be having sex with someone while blitzed out of your mind. It just sounds like a bad idea not only for women but men too.

Thoughts?
 

Super Kami Guru

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I'm completely with you on this, if both are drunk, then it's just a drunken mistake that, oh well, you now regret it. If one is drunk and the other sober, then that is absolutely non-consensual sex because one is in their right mind and the other is off on a bender. It is a ridiculous double standard that the men are held to task if both are drunk, because it's not like he has any more sense in his head than she does. What makes that rape and not just a drunken mistake? You both got drunk, you both had slobbery, uncoordinated and likely unsatisfying sex while out of your minds, it's both of your faults if you end up regretting it later. Granted, there is a case that drunken sex could also be considered non-consensual, but then what? Arrest both of them for something they had little knowledge of?

This is a big part of why I don't drink, I don't want to be in that situation ever.

If it were possible to have a designated sex ref, hanging out with the designated drivers and making sure no drunken sex takes place, then maybe we avoid this situation altogether, but as that's unlikely to ever happen, drunken people sleeping together is just a mistake that they'll have to live with regretting.
 
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Carnotaurus

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If you are sober it's highly insensible having sex with a drunk person, regardless of the gender. But generally I think it's very difficult to determine a person's level of intoxication. What does sober mean, having 0.0% alcohol in your blood? I can drink a beer and still be all good.

Also sometimes it's hard to tell when another person is drunk. Maybe they are in a mild level of inebriety but act all normal. If someone comes up to me and hits on me, should I carry a breathalyzer with me around just in case?

Thing is that each alcoholic beverages company has a message encrypted on the products: "Drink responsibly". You willingly took this drug and you must face some responsibility for your actions, right? So conclusion is that a. and d. cases are okay as long as they both seemed willing (aka in good faith). B. and c. are very tricky and still hard to prove. And depends extremely much on concrete cases.

I'm all against rape. That means I am still aware that there is still this small percentage where they use it in bad faith, e.q. X gets drunk and has unforced sex with Y but next day they regret their drunken decisions and out of shame they throw Y into misery. As I said, each case must be differently and thoroughly analysed.
 
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Boom

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I don't believe both being drunk cancels anything out, primarily because drinking can let loose aggression normally kept in. A woman, even drunk, might protest weakly (due to being drunk) and wouldn't normally consent, while a guy who is drunk might not be able to read any indicators and just assume the woman wanted it and is less likely to analyze a situation. And the same is truthe other way around. Two wrongs don't really make a right in this case.

Basically being drunk isn't an excuse any more than it would absolve a drunk driver in a wreck if the other driver was also drunk.
 
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Beerus

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Basically being drunk isn't an excuse any more than it would absolve a drunk driver in a wreck if the other driver was also drunk.
That is an interesting point. So should both parties be charged if something like this was taken to court?
 

Beerus

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If you are sober it's highly insensible having sex with a drunk person, regardless of the gender.
I agree completely with this. Even if they are coming on strong, you turn them away.

A friend I had growing up went to a party where she was drinking a lot when she was 16 or so. A guy there was messing around with her and ended up sleeping with her while she was coming and going from being blackout drunk. He was in his 20's as well so not only could he have been charged with possible rape, but sexual assault of a minor. She never did anything about it. I think back then, most girls and women were just too afraid or ashamed to say anything in cases like this. She should have NEVER been at a party underage drinking but this does not excuse the guy's judgment as he knew her age, drunk or not.
 

Punkhead

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If you are drunk you shouldn't have sex in general, in my opinion, but this is a bit tricky since you aren't in the right mind. The easy way would be if the woman claims rape then do a rape test, if I remember correctly they can prove if it was forced or not. In general, through this is a highly grey area with no real answer
 
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Super Kami Guru

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If only it were possible to ensure no one could have sex while drunk, that'd solve the issue entirely. Very true that two being drunk does not equate to nullifying the repercussions, I was wrong in wording my post in that way, because it's very true that some people become aggressive drunks and that can be an issue in the sex area just as much as a sober person taking advantage of a drunk person, but Beerus is right, you'd then have to look at proving it and, then what? Charge them both if it can't be proven as rape? How do you know she is telling the truth? How do you know he didn't rape her? Far too many variables, when the simplest solution is not to drink in the first place, but alas, that'll never happen. Just really difficult to figure out how to properly proceed on hearsay unless there is evidence of her saying no or him saying no...
 
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Beerus

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when the simplest solution is not to drink in the first place, but alas, that'll never happen
No matter how many dangers there are in doing this, most people won't stop until it affects them or someone close to them. What happens if you hook up with someone who has an STD? You don't find out for a few weeks because you were too drunk to remember and if you are a dude you end up spreading it to someone else or if you are a woman, you end up screwing up your reproductive health and risk losing the ability to have children.

If you want to get drunk, don't whip out your junk. Let's put that on a teeshirt and sell it.
 

Beerus

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^ unless you are married/in a relationship and you and your partner get drunk and fiddle each other's bits. Then that is just none of my business. :bulmatea:
 

Beerus

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WHich one would rosin up the bow?

giphy.gif
 
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Super Kami Guru

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No matter how many dangers there are in doing this, most people won't stop until it affects them or someone close to them. What happens if you hook up with someone who has an STD? You don't find out for a few weeks because you were too drunk to remember and if you are a dude you end up spreading it to someone else or if you are a woman, you end up screwing up your reproductive health and risk losing the ability to have children.

If you want to get drunk, don't whip out your junk. Let's put that on a teeshirt and sell it.

Simple -- every party has a waiver, every waiver requires that all women wear chastity underwear and all men wear chastity devices, as well. No ability to get in, no ability to get up...party until you black out! There we go, solved it!

^ unless you are married/in a relationship and you and your partner get drunk and fiddle each other's bits. Then that is just none of my business. :bulmatea:

...main reason no woman would marry me. She'd get fed up with wanting to fiddle her bits, like a cat that can't leave those dangly toys alone that are attached to cat trees...
 
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Beerus

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Simple -- every party has a waiver, every waiver requires that all women wear chastity underwear and all men wear chastity devices, as well. No ability to get in, no ability to get up...party until you black out! There we go, solved it!
They just need to invent some kind of anti-boner serum and put it in alcohol but also have it work for women so women can't have lady boners either, whatever the equivalent is.
 

Beerus

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...main reason no woman would marry me. She'd get fed up with wanting to fiddle her bits, like a cat that can't leave those dangly toys alone that are attached to cat trees...

giphy.gif


The gif might be too big to view so quote me to see it. lol
 
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